Let’s Discuss Camo Posted on May 21, 2010 by KUIU Ultralight Hunting I need your help in choosing camouflage for KUIU. ...Read More I need your help in choosing camouflage for KUIU. In discussing camo with other hunters over the years there are passionate opinions regarding the validity of any chosen style. Sticks and limbs, science versus photo realism, dark versus light. As I move forward with development of the KUIU line I would like to get your thoughts. What do you like & dislike? Realtree, Mossy Oak, Optifade, Predator? Do you like sticks and limbs, brush, sage or a generic pattern like Cabela’s Outfitter camo? How important is blobbing? As you know I am building KUIU around the feedback I receive. The same will be true with the pattern. My goal is a pattern that meets at a minimum the following criteria: – Does not blob at distance – Works in all enviornments – Excels in mountain hunting – Good contrast between colors to breakup the human form – Color choices that fool game, not customers at the display rack There you have it. Let’s get to work. Post your reply’s to the blog and I will respond to further the discussion. Thanks for your participation! Jason This article has 68 comment(s) J_Bird J_Bird May 21, 2010 Jason- This is a tough one. On one side of the fence you have marketability (main stream camo companies IE Realtree, Mossy Oak) on the other side you have functionality (lesser known but effective companies IE ASAT, Predator). In my opinion camo needs to be “pretty” and function well. It doesn’t always have to be the name brand. Think Mothwing Mountain Mimicry. That pattern looks good, but preforms well. Prior to Sitka, it was largely unheard of. Pretty camo helps sell at retail (important) and function helps sell your concealment to the animal. I think you need to find a pattern that offers a mix of all these aspects. Needs to preform, but look good doing it. Ha, I guess this is the age old camo discussion. I would be a little hesitant to choose 100% functionality over marketability, there’s a reason name brand camo patterns sell…They look good to our eyes. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston May 22, 2010 J_Bird, A camouflage that looks good at retail so it sells and keeps KUIU in business and a pattern that preforms in the field. This has not been brought up and something I will put on my list for sure. It is so easy to get caught up on functionality and end up with something that only a few of us understand and will wear. Thanks for your help. Jason Carlos Carlos May 23, 2010 Putting aside obscure camo patterns (good, bad or indifferent) or creating another of your own, it would seem the three patterns most commonly mentioned here are likely solutions. ASAT – Great Functionality, Good Marketability Predator – Good/Great Functionality, Good/So-So Marketability Mountain Mimicry – Good/Great Marketability, Good Functionality I don’t think Predator Camo has ever had a premium clothing or gear lineup associated with it so I am not sure if that is a benefit or a detriment. I’m sure there are quite a few folks that would like to add to their current “systems” without starting over in the camo pattern department. This lends well to Mountain Mimicry the most though ASAT might have the greatest potential. Particularly if you aren’t going to offer merino wool solutions. Could be complimentary to recent offerings in the market there. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston May 24, 2010 Hi Carlos, You bring up a good point from a retailers perspective, allowing your customers to add on to current systems without having to start over. Something we will certainly consider. I really like all three patterns. Thank you for your the help. Jason Tom Tom May 21, 2010 Camo…now here’s a can of worms! I expect some passionate replies to this post. The topic of camoflauge is akin to fishing lure design. You have to wonder how many lures are designed to catch fisherman vs. real fish. Blending in vs. creating confusion are two main arguments. I’m more about creating confusion because it is impossible to really blend in or disappear in an living organic environment. I’m a big fan of big contrast and confusion vs. photorealism. On the hanger, they are great to look at but when I look at photos of myself or others wearing ASAT, Predator, or Sticks N Limbs, Skyline (in treestands), I see much more blending than the “blobbing” effect created by photorealistic patterns. I may be off base here but I have not bought into the Opitfade pattern. What!? Well, for me the jury is still out. I like it but think it would be even more effective with an overlay of larger contrasting patterns/shapes. I still feel it blobs. Less than darker hue patterns, which makes sense, but it still blobs. Robert Hoague (Sticks N Limbs) has a great color pallete and pattern…that blue/gray is great. I know, my eyes are not ungulate eyes but the simplicity of light & dark contrast to break up human form is hard to overlook. I have experimented with designing patterns that incorporate larger blocks of muted hues, shapes with hard line edges, and large purposely heavily blurred shapes to create visual confusion. I think there is something to this. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston May 22, 2010 Thanks Tom for all the detailed reply, there is a lot of great input here. I totally agree with your comment regarding an overlay of larger contrasting patterns/shapes to prevent blobbing of a micro detailed pattern. This is definitely a goal of mine for KUIU’s camouflage. Jason Ryan Sanpei Ryan Sanpei May 22, 2010 Things that I’ve thought about over the years. Keep in mind that I hunt from the ground 99% of the time. I have little to no experience from tree stands. We’re focusing on their sense of sight since the discussion is camo. Have we trained animals in certain areas to associate camo as a threat? If I’m hunting a new species, it takes me a while for my eyes to “pick up” the colors of the new animals, but once I become familar with what I’m supposed to see, picking out animals becomes easier and easier. I would think the same would be true for animals too. In one weekend in a public land hunting area, animals can be shot at and pursued numerous times all day long by humans dressed in some type of traditional camo. Are these animals “picking up” on traditional style camo? Animals that fear traditional camo……that would be bad! Can a camo pattern alter the silhouette of a human being instead of blending into a specific environment? Camo that mimics trees, brush leaves, etc. are great but what happens when you spot and stalk on a wide range of terrain in one day? I could be pinned down on a pile of black rocks, crawl through green grass, and still hunt through a forest of trees all in one afternoon. I need something that would alter my appearance in a variety of terrain. When we hunt, we are entering the animals’ home. They know when things are out of place, missing, new, or just not right. How do we blend into their home environment without “sticking out like a sore thumb”? Even if we looked exactly like the couch, I think they would notice if we stuck their couch in their bathroom. LOL! As for colors, I’ve always prefered darker, dull colors that didn’t “glow”. Even earth tones seem to do well too. The sun can really brighten certain color patterns which I feel is a big no-no. Don’t want to walk around like a human neon sign. I’ve never found a pattern that I’ve that I’ve been completely satisfied with, but with the open-minded approach of KUIU, I may just find one that works in the near future! 🙂 Thanks! Ryan Jason Hairston Jason Hairston May 22, 2010 Hi Ryan, Great points. I agree with your observations regarding mimicry patterns for spot and stalk hunting. I really like a universal pattern that blends into multiple environments like Cabela’s Outfitter camouflage and ASAT. The contrasting break up of Predator is also a favorite of mine. Most camouflage has too much micro detail that all goes away at 10 yards and creates a solid mass at distance, designed for the consumer not the hunter. Thank you for the input. Jason Ryan Sanpei Ryan Sanpei May 22, 2010 Hi Jason, I’ve used predator camo for years before switching to mountain mimicry. The only draw back was that some of their lighter colors seemed to glow in the sunlight. I’m not sure how it affected the animals but it was pretty bright in the field. A few of my hunting partners swear by ASAT. The only reason why I didn’t try it was because the clothing didn’t fit me. It’s tough being short! 🙂 I guess in the end it comes down to the hunter and not the pattern but it would be really nice if that pattern gave you that “second chance”. It’s golden when you’re prey looks directly at you then turns away and goes back to feeding. Ryan Luke Luke May 22, 2010 Jason- This is an easy one for me. Having hunted in many different environments, terrains, hunting styles, etc. there is not a perfect pattern. However, the pattern that has consistently outperformed all others by a wide margin is ASAT. The only other pattern that has similar characteristics is predator in the fall brown print. Others such as mossy oak, realtree, etc I find quite laughable. They may be okay if your game is within 10 yds, but beyond that they blob out so bad you might as well have on solid black. Now I realize that from a marketability standpoint, you may think of using non big-name camo as a suicide run. But look at Sitka. Their stuff in ASAT got gobbled up like presents at Christmas time. And the people that have it hold on to it, and people that don’t have it want it. The type of hunter that would be interested in KUIU as a clothing line is not concerned about the perception of the camo he’s wearing. He’s not concerned about matching camo patters with his jacket and his bow. He will be concerned about what works. Most of the time people have a love/hate relationship with ASAT. The people that love it swear by it. When the haters bash it what you will hear typically is “man that stuff works incredibly well but is it ever ugly – think I”ll stick with mossy oak.” This is the type of person that sits in a treestand for a few hours and then goes to have coffee at Cracker Barrel and is worried about wearing an en vogue camo print. You will not hear somebody that spends 2 weeks and $10k on a back country hunting expedition express concern about the cosmetics of their pattern. This is the market I feel you are trying to capture, and this market would respond well to ASAT. Luke Disclaimer – I am not in any way affiliated with ASAT and have no personal agenda with these comments. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston May 22, 2010 Luke, I really appreciate you taking so much time to express your opinion here regarding ASAT. Your point is very well taken regarding the core customer for KUIU “getting” this type of pattern. Thank you very much for your detailed reply. Jason Jeff K. Jeff K. May 22, 2010 When it come to camo the majority is done around the deer hunters. I think there is a demand for camo that will work in the North, ie: Alaska, Yukon, NWT, NT. Lots of yellows and red for moose hunting, grey and coal colors for mountains hunting like sheep and goat. Colors to match the tundra in the artic for caribou. How a willow pattern, a shale rock pattern, a Tundra pattern. There is a void in the market that you should, at least, take a look at. Image google “tombstone park” and see for yourself in what I am trying to say. E-mail me if you want to hear more Ideas that I have. Jeff Ryan K Ryan K May 23, 2010 I’d like to first say, “Great site!” and I’ve really enjoyed reading the interviews and threads so far; extremely insightful! Can’t wait to see what’s next! About the camo. I share the same hunting areas as Mr. Sanpei above and I concur about what he is saying about popular patterns being associated with hunters. Though I may not have hunted as long as others (26 years old), here’s my two cents. Our local hunting areas have EXTREME hunting pressure and our local sheep, goat, and deer population are very keen on spotting anything out of the ordinary. Early on, I’ve noticed that while using popular camo patters of mossy oak and realtree that the game would hardly ever let down guard once semi-spotted (I don’t buy those patterns anymore). A childhood friend of mine spent time in the marines and I was lucky enough to get a bunch of marpat (woodland) camo from him. I’ve noticed greater success and the game have more frequently let down guard even after being somewhat spotted. Though I don’t know how it looks a distance away (because my buddies don’t have this) I’ve got to imagine that the local game are not “programmed” to pick this up yet. It seems to work just about everywhere for me in the islands from rainforests, lava fields, grasslands, alpine, and up to 12,000 feet on moon-like landscapes. Only problem was the material is very tough and noisy, so I’ve had limited use on some spot and stalk bowhunt deals and have switched to brush-type camo for my top. But still almost always use the marpat on my pants. I’ve tried quieter imitations but went back because they just don’t have the exact same tones of the marpat (I assume for patent reasons). Well, that’s my input from out here in the pacific. Can’t wait to see what you got coming next! Aloha – Ryan Jason Hairston Jason Hairston May 24, 2010 Hi Ryan, Thank you for the nice words about the KUIU blog. It has been very rewarding getting the thoughtful feed back such as yours from so many. I will go a check out Marpat today, thank you for this input. I grew up hunting Spanish Goats on Catalina off the coast of S. Cal. Like the areas you hunt, these animals get very good at recognizing hunters. I think this is why a contrasting pattern that breaks up the human form at distance is important. Thanks you, Jason George Hicks George Hicks May 24, 2010 I have four favorite camo patterns; Cabela’s Outfitter, Brown Predator, Spring Green Predator, and Max-1 HD. From reading the other replies, I guess I am odd man out when I say I don’t really like the ASAT. I suppose it is because I think it is a little ugly and not that it isn’t effective, which means I have one foot in the aesthetics camp and one in the functionality camp as far a camo is concerned. While we are on the subject of camo, in my mind it is far less important than other factors. I choose my backcountry gear based on performance and use a lot of mountianeering gear that isn’t camo at all. So I am a function-over-form guy, but consider camo a nice attribute to great gear. Since you can never win on the subject of camo, I hope that thought takes a little of the pressure off 🙂 George Drake Atwood Drake Atwood May 24, 2010 To me, marketability is just as important as functionality. I love the performance of camo patterns like ASAT and Predator…but when you try to buy them you can hardly find a place that sells them. They don’t market well, especially when compared to the mainstream camoflauge companies whose camo patterns blob after 10 yards. In my time working in marketing, I have found that a product being attractive looking is equally important to a product that is just functionally sound. Most markets are broken into 2 sub-markets: 1)people who buy the product for its intended use and actually use the product for that intended use and 2) people who buy the product because it’s popular, looks cool, sounds cool, other people are doing it. It sounds stupid but it is true. I noticed this with the Sitka gear just around where I live. I would say about half of the people around here who have Sitka actually use it for its intended use. The other half rarely hunt, let alone in any kind of backcountry setting. They bought it because it was the new”cool” gear. So why not tackle both markets with a camo pattern that is not only very functionally sound but also one that is very attractive looking? I don’t think there is a camo pattern out now that has this and therefore think that one will need to be developed for the Kuiu system…maybe something similar to what Tom described in his comment with a large pattern of visual confusion overlayed with limbs with really drastic contrast. In my opinion, for the Kuiu system to be the best and to market well, it needs a camo pattern that is very functionally sound (with all of your above mentioned criteria)and also very attractive to customers looking at it on a display rack. And I don’t think you have to sacrifice any functionality to make it look catchy and attractive. Sorry this went long… Jason Hairston Jason Hairston May 24, 2010 Hi Drake, Thank you for taking the time to write up such a detailed comment. All of your points are very well taken. I appreciate your marketing perspective and the need for the marketability of the pattern and the product line. Keep the thoughts coming, it is very helpful. Jason Eric M Eric M May 25, 2010 Ryan, I much prefer earth tones over camo. I have never felt not wearing camo as a disadvantage. That said I hunt Montana and Alaska. Others situations may be require different gear. My take on the Kuiu line is its geared more toward alpine hunting environments where gear must meet demanding requirements. My self and others I hunt with use mostly mountaineering gear while hunting. There seems to be a void in really high end gear for the alpine hunter which is where I feel Kuiu is really going to fill the void. Now back to camo patterns. If I had to pick a pattern that would really work well for many different landscapes it would be multi cam. I have used multi cam a bit and it really seems to break up your outline in many different situations. From deep in the trees to out in the plains it just works. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston May 28, 2010 Eric, If you had a choice between a good camo for mountain hunting or earth tones what would you choose? I have had several people ask about KUIU in earth tones, guys that do not like to wear camo. Thanks for your input. Jason Luke Luke May 28, 2010 Jason- The problem with earth tones is that once you lose the camo, you lose the hunting identity of the clothing line. You then become another high end mountaineering clothing manufacturer, of which there are many. I can get earth tone, ultralight, bombproof mountaineering clothing already – Arc’teryx, Patagonia, MH, just to name a few. With respect, a new company on the radar is going to have a hard time competing with the established giants. These companies have proven performance reputations and customer service, so why would I abandon them for Kuiu? What is difficult to find is mountaineering/back country grade clothing in camo. Why do you think Sitka is so successful? In closing, in my opinion, once you lose the camo, you lose your identity as a HUNTING clothing line, and then toss yourself in with the MOUNTAINEERING guys. With that said, that market is so saturated with well established, powerful companies I don’t think you will stay afloat. I’m not doubting the effectiveness of earth tones, I just think it changes the whole scope of your customer base. Luke Jason Hairston Jason Hairston June 1, 2010 Hello Luke; Camo will definately be apart of my new line. I agree with you comments. Thanks, Jason Eric M Eric M May 29, 2010 Jason, I would choose the earth tone every time. Depending on where I was hunting a OD or Foliage would be my choice. Up in the shale It would be a darker grey tone. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston June 1, 2010 Hi Eric; Thanks for the comment. I am also a fan of earth tones. So many deer have given me the slip with earth toned fur. Must be something to that! Jason Kendall Kendall May 25, 2010 I think the knee-jerk reaction by some hunters to disavow Realtree and Mossy Oak because they are big companies is just that, knee-jerk. Do all the patterns they offer fall into the “blob” category? No. Here’s my $.02 as a western backcountry hunter: Realtree AP – it’s pretty good and it fooled me once when I lost a buddy in the open, but it’s too brown for a lot of locations. Realtree Max 1 – a crowd favorite here in the west, hard to toss a stone without hitting a backcountry hunter that likes this pattern Realtree HW – seems blobish to me Mossy Oak Brush – I think this pattern is better than most give it credit for, including Mossy Oak Mossy Oak Treestand – Some of the sheep hunters like this pattern because of the grey to it and overall it’s ok Mossy Oak Break Up – Blob Mossy Oak Infinity – Blob with brown ASAT may be functional, but dang that stuff looks freakish. It’s sold well with my store, but we’ve only sold the First Lite and guys love the wool. Kings Desert and Mountain Shadow? I’ve seen a lot of that stuff around on guys that swear by it, but they don’t license the camo to my knowledge. I’ve hunted the most in Mothwing Mountain Mimicry and frankly after my experience last fall with a number of deer and elk that looked right through me and then went back to feeding I’m sold. It functions well and has a good following thanks to Sitka’s efforts. Optifade has merit and I plan to use some this fall but I think Sitka has an exclusive for one more year on it. That could bode very well for Kuiu since they’ll spend $$ to market it, gaining wider market acceptance before Kuiu could have a chance to use it. I guess I agree with much that’s been said with the toss up between looks good on the shelf and functions in the field. My vote would be with Mtn Mimicry but don’t ignore Max 1, Brush and perhaps AP as prime options for market appeal and function in the field. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston May 28, 2010 Hi Kendall, Thank you for your comment. It is great to get a retailers perspective. A follow up question for you is regarding brand recognition or identity. Do you loose this by licensing another companies camouflage? I felt this was a big advantage for Sitka with our development of Mountain Mimicry. Our product was very identifiable in the field and in magazines. Do your customers want this out of performance brand? Jason Mike R. Mike R. May 31, 2010 In my opinion, the more unique and distinguishable your camoflage is, the better it is for your brand. If you licensed optifade, for example, I think a lot of people flipping through the magazines or in the field would confuse it with sitka. However, if you used a pattern thats never been used on high performance gear it would get people’s attention and get it noticed. For some, this would help sell the product, because they like to have the latest and greatest and they want you to know they have it. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston June 1, 2010 Hi Mike; What I desire in a camo I have not seen. I agree that something unique will certainly distinguish our brand. Keep the comments coming. They are greatly appreciated. Jason Mike R. Mike R. May 26, 2010 I must say I’m a big fan of the ASAT pattern. I’d like to have more of it than I do, but there isn’t much thats high performance in that pattern. However, I’ve had good results with Mtn. Mimicry. In my opinion, there are quite a few guys in my area that would be interested in high performance wear in ASAT, or possibly Predator, but Mtn. Mimicry would probably appeal to a wider range of hunters. You could always offer it in both. Jarred Black Jarred Black June 1, 2010 I really like Realtree AP and Max-1 patterns. I think they are pretty tough to beat in terms of looks “on the rack” and I feel they’re versitile in the field. This may be my Midwest bias but I think it could help your sales as so many people wear it. Can’t wait to see the lineup! Jason Hairston Jason Hairston June 1, 2010 Thanks for your comments on RT AP & Max-1, your points are well taken. Jason Tye Abell Tye Abell June 1, 2010 For me, camo is all about breaking up the human outline and hiding any movement that I have to make in order to get a shot opportunity. When I was younger I feel into the marketability of patterns like Mossy Oak and Realtree, as I’ve matured as a hunter and a person, I’ve realized what is really important in camo, and currently use both Cabela’s Outfitter and ASAT. Are these perfect patterns, no, but do they break up my outline better than most out there, yes. Whatever you choose to go with, I’m sure it will be something I’ll feel fits my criteria for camo; as you are certainly approaching this the way I wish every clothing manufacturer would. Can’t wait to see what you come up with. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston June 1, 2010 Tye, I am a big fan of Outfitter, ASAT and Predator. Definitely more function than form, but they get the job done which is what I like. Thank you for taking the time to give me your input. Let me know if you have any other ideas. Jason Benjie Benjie June 9, 2010 Jason, Are you planning on choosing 1 camo pattern or possibly offering a choice of 2 or 3? I personally have and use alot of the outfitter camo and have quite a bit of older sikta cothing in the mountain mimicry. I would love to see some more mountain mimicry, as probably alot your potential customers do I have some of the older mountain mimicry stuff and now seeing as Sitka has moved away from this pattern, you using this pattern would allow us to complete and add to our collection of gear. Just my thoughts Jason Hairston Jason Hairston June 15, 2010 Hi Benjie, I am evaluating all options at this point. Thanks for taking the time to let me know your thoughts. Jason Brent Brent June 15, 2010 Jason, make your own camo, large pattern to break up outline, 2 kinds, light for open country dry terrain (tan, light gray,and a little dark gray and black), and medium dark, will work for the coastal forests and the alpine(light gray, dark gray, tan,and some black). would be nice to have a pattern you could wear around people also and not look like a walmart warrior. Maybe not all camo over the entire garment. Or maybe different plain colors for each part of the garment, dont know if the last one would sell to the masses but would probably work the best excited to see what you come up with! Brent Jason Hairston Jason Hairston June 15, 2010 Hi Brent, Thanks for this input, it is well noted and I will put it to use. Thanks, Jason J_Bird J_Bird June 15, 2010 Jason- When do we hear the camo decision? When are you planning to launch the line? Thx. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston June 15, 2010 Hi J, Great questions. I am still collecting comments on the camo and will again summarize the feedback here shortly along with some conclusions. In regards to launch, we are still in the development process which determines the product launch date when it is finalized. I know I am being a bit vague here but I do not want to make any promises that I cannot meet. I hope you can understand as soon as I know I will pass along the launch date. Thanks for your interest. Jason Bill Bill December 14, 2010 I’m late to the party here, but I have to say I’ve spent plenty on Sitka Mountain Mimicry. Recently, I lent my ASAT 3D suit to a fried who joined me on a late-season rifle hunt in Colorado. He would walk three feet ahead of me into the Rocky Mountain forest and disappear immediately. It think it’s a combo of the pattern as well as the 3D break-up. Which I think it completely overlooked in high-end hunting apparel. Anyway, I really love where KUIU is is going and look forward to trying out the gear this season. Here’s to a new hunting aesthetic and better hunting technology. — A huge fan Jason Hairston Jason Hairston December 14, 2010 Hi Bill, Welcome, thank you for taking the time to comment. I appreciate your kind words of support. Your comment regarding ASAT leafy wear is well noted. Let me know if you have any other comments or questions. I look forward to earning your business. Jason JC JC December 20, 2010 Hi. I just caught wind of your entire operation including the blog. It’s nice to see a new company dedicated to listening to hunters. Thank you. All I ask is that you consider some solid color options. I am a western rifle hunter; spending time in timbered mountains and grassy prairie/coulee country. And I happen to just dislike most camo, particularly the “fashion” camos, i.e. Mossy Oak, RealTree, ect. I broke down and bought a mountain mimicry jacket from Sitka because mountain hunting demands good, versatile clothing – which you guys understand. I guess my point is, when it comes to purchasing gear, I like to buy quality stuff and am willing to pay for it, to an extent. But I cannot afford to buy entire outfits just to suit different, specific terrains. And I think it is silly to do so. I am glad that Sitka finally started to release some of their jackets and pants as solids, but they are black or dark gray and it seems almost discourage them for use hunting. They want us to pay for the Optifade. Solid colors like Eberlestock’s “dry earth” are nice and I think would look great for a pair of pants, a jacket, etc. I agree with the “blob” contingent here and prefer the Cabela’s outfitter style camo or ASAT to the “realistic” patterns. But even those “blob” in my opinion. It seems like good light value grays, tans, and other “earth” tones with some minimal (compared to the accepted style) break up patterns that would be great for a Montana hunter like me, and many others. And I think there are quite a few people that don’t want to where camo suits and would really appreciate a line of quality clothing and gear that is designed for the active hunter. Looking forward to your new offerings! Jason Hairston Jason Hairston December 20, 2010 Hi JC, Welcome to the blog and thank you for the comment. Several other people have made the request for the gear in non-camo, earth tone colors you can hunt in. I have listened and will be offering the entire line in non-camo colors as well, we are on track for a March 31st launch date for the layering system. I look forward to earning you business. Please let me know if you have any other questions or comments. Jason JC JC December 20, 2010 Good News! That was too easy! I’m really looking forward to seeing the line. Thanks for listening to your consumer. Dooug helgerson Dooug helgerson December 20, 2010 Jason, I can’t wait to see some of the clothing line in stores this spring. Like so many of us, I just can’t enough good gear! I’m very much a midwestern hunter (Wisconsin) so the mountain use of your line doesn’t currently concern me too much. Hopefully in the future that changes! However, I am moving further away from the standard camo used here in the upper midwest. I use a bunch of different camo from RT AP, MO brush, MO Treestand, Cabela’s Outiftter Camo, and very recently Sitka Open Country (will try the Ascent pants out this weeken late bow season). Very often, I use them together and feel the deer have an even harder time picking me out when I am wearing multiple types of camo. I really prefer the lighter patterns with a lot of contrast even here in Wisconsin. The new line looks fantastic so far. Keep it up! -Doug Steve Ameral Steve Ameral December 20, 2010 Hi Jason, One more thought along the solid color line, I have some friends that are serious mountain bike and snow board guys. One is a lawyer, a couple doctors and a few business owners, all middle age and have money but they can’t find good gear. Your products would be excellent for them. You may want to think about others like them. Great start with the hunting end and I am willing to bet the same ideas would be great for others as well. You are on a great path with so many opportunities. Additional colors are easy once the basics are nailed down. Thanks, Steve Jason Hairston Jason Hairston December 20, 2010 Thanks Steve, Adding other color ways is not difficult, this layering system will have a lot of applications besides hunting. Jason Justin Starck Justin Starck January 13, 2011 I have thought the same thing as I am an avid backcountry snowboarder but hunting gear is not going to offer some of the snow specific features I would want, such as jacket to pant gaiter or interior pant gaitors to keep snow out. It would be hard to compete with with compainies such as Arcteryx and Norrona in that market. Brian. Al Brian. Al January 9, 2011 Being a transplant to the West from the Midwest, I think I take my camo patterns too seriously. As long as there are camo companies, there will be camo debates. Despite what some may say about effectiveness (such as Gore with their Optifade), individuals will remain loyal to “their” brand. If “their” brand is not offered in a quality line, they my not purchase that line. Putting patterns a side for a moment, I would hope to see some of the new clothing include Gore-Tex and Windstopper if at all possible. Those two words in and of themselves sell product! Personally, I am a huge fan of Mossy Oak and think that their patterns will cover every species of game, across the country. That being said, having moved to the West, I quickly noticed a lack of patterns specific to the West. A company with the best “Western Patterns” in my opinion, with a huge following, but a lack of quality clothing would be King’s Shadow Camo. Their Desert Shadow, Mountain Shadow and Snow Shadow are incredible! I failed to purchase their product due to a lack of quality apparel. King’s patterns on a high quality, performance based apparel line would be a big win I believe! All King’s needs is a good Midwest patter, as their Woodlands is not very accurate! Good luck with the product launch and I look forward to seeing it! Jason Hairston Jason Hairston January 9, 2011 Hi Brian, I completely understand and respect loyalty to a brand. This type of loyalty I hope to earn over time with KUIU. Thank you for taking the time to comment and give me your thoughts and ideas, I sincerely appreciate it. I am excited about this product line and look forward to showing it to you. Jason Mark Toso Mark Toso January 12, 2011 One huge aspect of camo that is overlooked is fabric texture, or “sheen.” I like Sitka gear camo patterns but feel it’s really poor because it’s shiny. Ever wonder why a deer, which is bascially 1 color, is so hard to see? The edges are soft and it’s dull so it doesn’t stick out. I use predator brown camo and found it ‘s the best pattern whether it’s in a tree stand in Wisconsin or elk hnting in Wyoming, but that’s also because my clothing has a low nap, and is very dull. If it were shiny no pattern in the world is going to work at close range. As long as you have a more open pattern (like predator) without being excessively detailed and dark (like some of the more commercial camo) and a dull fabric, most any pattern would work. It seems to me your target audience is serious hunters, so if you have something that works well, the pretttyness of the camo pattern won’t be so important. That’s why patterns like predator have such a loyal following. I just wish they had higher quality clothing. I can’t wait to buy some of your gear. Seems most so called hunting gear was designed by some guy in New York, and never tested in the real world. How else can you explain noisy zippers, buttons that rattle and pockets that snag everything? Jason Hairston Jason Hairston January 13, 2011 Thanks Mark! I have nothing against anyone from NY, but I get what you are saying. We have tested this product line in some nasty conditions to make sure it is as good as we believe it is. No buttons that rattle, I promise. Jason Justin Justin January 15, 2011 I think something like your prototype camo is great but I would like to see the edges softened up a little (blending between the light and dark). Although that is easy to overdo and then you have the blobing problem. ASAT, preditor and Max-1 are all very good in my opinion. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston January 15, 2011 Hi Justin, great point. It will not be quite as hard on the color corrected version, the light color is much improved and the greys are softened a bit. It helps, but still gives the contrast that makes it so effective. I will have color correct samples in the fairly soon and I will post up a bunch of photos for your review. Jason Curt Cabrera Curt Cabrera January 15, 2011 Hey! I’m from NY! ;^) But I hear ya Mark, that’s a very good point and something I very much agree with you about. That was one of my dislikes with other clothing that I’ve worn prior to KUIU. Zippers, velcro, and such that were absolutely not needed and served no real-world pupose that I could see. Just cosmetic mostly to make it more “techie” looking and appealing to the consumer. Curt } >>—–> Bruce qvammen Bruce qvammen January 17, 2011 Jason I have a pheasant and whitetail ranch in western north Dakota. We have promoted Sitka for several years. I am looking forward to your new line but would like to make one suggestion. A orange camo would be a huge seller for rifle hunters as well as upland. It would only be necessary in jackets and vests. Most states require orange for big game rifle and Midwest outfitters are lobbying their game and fish to require orange for upland game as well. Here is no worse feeling than tracking a flushing pheasant and looking for a camo clad hunter at the same time. Thanks Bruce Qvammen Jason Hairston Jason Hairston January 17, 2011 Hi Bruce, Thank you for taking the time to comment. The blaze orange color for a Jacket and Vest is well noted. I have heard this from several who hunt in Colorado and the lack of gear other than a cheap vest being available. I will look into this for future development. I appreciate it! Jason Larry Schwartz Larry Schwartz March 29, 2011 Jason, You could replace the tan base color of the Vias pattern with blaze orange and meet the requirements. Also, the orange should be very close to the tan when looked at via ungulate grayscale vision. It should be a simple fix. Larry Izzy Roman Izzy Roman February 14, 2011 Looking forward to the solid grey attack pants. Theyre just what Ive been looking for. Jason Hairston Jason Hairston February 14, 2011 Thanks Izzy, this is great to hear. Jason chris bone chris bone March 23, 2011 Check out the article we wrote on Kuiu Greg Greg March 29, 2011 I really enjoyed seeing this new camouflage pattern, I believe it will blend in perfectly here in Pennsylvania. As a disabled hunter in a power wheelchair I rely on ground blinds and camouflage more than able-bodied hunters. If you’re ever looking for someone to test new products, please let me know! I look forward to trying this new pattern, good luck this season! Greg Jason Hairston Jason Hairston March 29, 2011 Thanks Greg! I am always curious where this pattern will excel. Please send us photos this season, I would love to post them up. Jason Greg Greg March 30, 2011 Thanks Jason, I have a few on my blog http://www.accessiblehunter.blogspot.com I hope to use your new pattern this fall JohnC JohnC March 31, 2011 Larry’s idea of a blaze orange with a break-up pattern is a really good one. Doesn’t every state require a minimum of blaze orange for rifle season? But I think the Montana law states that is has to be continuous 300 sq inches, don’t know if the break-up patter would work. To have one great shell – i.e. the Guide Jacket – that takes care of the orange requirement without having to deal with crappy vests would be really nice. I have spent enough on orange -I have two fleeces, numerous super crappy mesh ones that get all twisted up and never stay put, and a supposed “good” (meaning $20 rather than $5) one from Browning that doesn’t fit over layers – to pay for a Guide Vest! I have all this because I could not find a quality jacket that incorporated the orange even though it is a fact of life for rifle hunters. Could be a pretty (another) pretty big breakthrough for the industry. Who better than KUIU to do it? Adam Adam April 1, 2011 I am really liking what I see so far. I currently own and love Sticks n’ Limbs, some Predator Brown and Grey as well as Cabelas Outfitter. My brother has also had outstanding luck with ASAT. I cannot wait to try some of your camo this fall. ALEX ALEX December 7, 2011 I came to hunting from the military and i have pretty much used the multicam pattern, which i can get in technical clothing from Arc’teryx and Crye and Eberlestock and a few other specialty shops. It really seems to work in the multiple environments. That said I am looking at some more hunter-specific stuff like Mimicry which looks good. I think Multicam works well but it does make you look military or law enforcement which probably isn’t the market you want. Kevin Kevin March 13, 2013 I wear camo for a living. I grew up in the mountains in MT and spent significant time hunting the famous Missouri River breaks for elk. I’ve also been abroad on two tours. IMO, blobbing is much more versatile than stripes or anything digital. I sometimes have to chuckle when I watch afghan army guys in digital camo maneuvering next to American or British counterparts in multicam. Again IMO, I think Kuiu is heading in the right direction however I do think its camo needs tweaked. While their camo is conducive to extreme altitudes in the chugach or brooks range, or the valley floors in said ranges. It would not do me much good in many environments in the lower 48. I would like them to consider looking at sleeping Indian camo ( basically its outfitter brown). I think that by combining that camouflage pattern with their technical clothing line they would truly be breaking ground. Outfitter camo is traditionally wool. Wool is very heavy. The only company that is filling that niche in outfitter camo is cabelas. But kuiu could one up them because of their quality control. Again, this is solely my opinion but I hope that kuiu is listening to me on this one. Michael Norden Michael Norden November 8, 2013 The intent of camo is to blend into and look like your surroundings or backdrop. No two environments or even species of trees look the same. Therefore, no single camo pattern will work equally well in all situations and locations. That being said, all patterns and natural settings blob together at a distance. It all depends on how are you are away. The higher contrasting patterns don’t tend not to blob together farther away, but stand out closer up. You cannot have both. One thing I have found is that the higher contrast patterns look better on smaller items of clothing such as gloves, hats and facemasks.